1/2oz//2cup boil?

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Allen
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by Allen » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:48 pm

Tony wrote:Hi Allen,
if anybody in the USA finds a denatured alcohol that out preforms Yellow Heet Methanol, PLEASE tell
me the brand name instead of just using the generic name Denatured alcohol. I am sceptical
My local ACE sells S-L-X and i know it doesn't out preform Yellow Heet.
I am spoilt here in OZ our STD denatured 95% ethyl alcohol out performs Methyl alcohol by a lot, about 3-4 mls per 0.5l.

I have done a quick search of the net for US denatured alcohol MSDS's and here are some URL's for denatured alcohol suppliers that look like they would easily out perform HEET, I do not know how easy it is to get these denatured alcohols but they are worth a look at. I am surprised that SLX 50/50 does not out perform HEET it must have to many other additives that slows the performance. Heet is nearly pure Methanol 99%, I am testing 99.8% methanol.

Tony

http://www.syndel.com/msds/denatured_ethanol_msds.html
http://www.hillbrothers.com/msds/pdf/de ... lcohol.pdf
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9922820
http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/MSDS/ ... _3_200.pdf
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/P6735.htm

Thanks for the links Tony!

If I ever get a chance to buy 95% Ethyl Denatured, I'll buy an arm load.

Allen
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by Allen » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:42 pm

I found a .pdf of the S-L-X Denatured Alcohol Material safety data sheet if anyone needs it. It links off this site:

http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarestore ... 05435.aspx

It's a 45-50/45-50 blend

Tony
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Location: Canberra Australia
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by Tony » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:01 pm

Hi Allen,

I wish I could send you some Aussie denatured but I do not think it is possible to do that.

This ethanol/methanol/denatured alcohol debate has to be put into perspective, unless you are going to do a very long walk the amount of extra fuel that you have to carry when using methanol compared to ethanol or high quality denatured is very small about 3 grams (0.1 oz) per 500 ml (2 cups) boiled, over a 3-4 day walk it is really not that much extra fuel to carry, possibly about 30g (1 oz).

Tony

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DarenN
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Location: Surrey, B.C. Canada

Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by DarenN » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:18 pm

more mathematics.

i made an assumption, that ethyl would weigh the same as methyl, and beat up on my calculater for a while.
what i was trying to figure out was an equivelent volume for the same BTU potential of methyl vs. ethyl.
what i came up with is that 15cc of ethyl carries 406 BTU. and 406 BTU requires 19.2cc of methyl.

a quick test of a few of my burners shows that i can easily do the 2cup boil on 19cc of methyl hydrate,
(99.9% pure advertised).

if i got all the math right, i can stop worrying about it, and just carry on building my stoves cause they are as good as the benchmark.

DarenN........
"I'd rather be happy than right." Slartibartfast

Allen
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by Allen » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:57 pm

DarenN,

When I choose a Stove, I look for Design and Production Quality.
Your stoves take backseat to none I've ever seen, in those reguards. :)

Cheers!

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Skidsteer
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Location: Leisure Acres

Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by Skidsteer » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:45 pm

Tony wrote:Hi Allen,

I wish I could send you some Aussie denatured but I do not think it is possible to do that.

This ethanol/methanol/denatured alcohol debate has to be put into perspective, unless you are going to do a very long walk the amount of extra fuel that you have to carry when using methanol compared to ethanol or high quality denatured is very small about 3 grams (0.1 oz) per 500 ml (2 cups) boiled, over a 3-4 day walk it is really not that much extra fuel to carry, possibly about 30g (1 oz).

Tony
That's some good perspective Tony.

Sometimes we overanalyze this stove stuff.

Ya think? :lol:
Skids

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
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DarenN
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Location: Surrey, B.C. Canada

Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by DarenN » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:12 pm

yeah, Skids. i knew that all along.
but due to the fact that i can't get the same fuel that you all can, i wanted to do my comparisons based on equal ground.
DarenN.........
"I'd rather be happy than right." Slartibartfast

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zelph
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by zelph » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:49 pm

DarenN wrote:Allen;
the chart in this thread viewtopic.php?f=19&t=585&st=0&sk=t&sd=a doesn't show ISO alcohol but we weren't talking about it anyway. we are comparing methyl and ethyl. methyl has a potential btu of 10,000+, while ethyl is rated at 13,000+btu.
for a stove to boil 2cups of water on a half ounce of ethyl we need the burner to operate at 25-30% efficiency. for a stove burning methyl we need to get the efficiency up to about 50%. this is just simple mathematics (it has to be simple, or i couldn't do it ;) ).
the real test will be when Zelph recieves the burners i send him and tests then with denatured alcohol. i've come very close to the 2c boil on a couple of burners, with both methyl hydrate and race car methanol, and i suspect that they will easily do it on ethyl alcohol.
if you have a burner that will boil 2c on 1/2oz of methyl, i'd really like to see how you did it. hell, i'd buy a bunch of them! :D
DarenN........
I received Darens' stoves and had to test one of them today :mrgreen:

The one I chose is a weiner!!!!(Skidsteer take note)

It boiled 2 cups in 9.5 min. using 1/2 ounce of denatured alcohol. Continued to boil till flame out for an additional 1.25 min.

Starting water and room temperature was at 70 degrees. Tests were done in the kitchen lab. Shhhhh,mums the word.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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DarenN
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by DarenN » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:02 pm

Oh Man! that makes me feel good. :D :D
but i just gots to know; which burner?!?!?
"I'd rather be happy than right." Slartibartfast

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zelph
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by zelph » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:19 pm

DarenN wrote:Oh Man! that makes me feel good. :D :D
but i just gots to know; which burner?!?!?
I could make you sizzle and not tell!!!!!!!
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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