1/2oz//2cup boil?

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zelph
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by zelph » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:13 pm

DarenN wrote:
oops56 wrote:Well put it this way try a windscreen.Now if i got alcohol stove that does not boil on a1/2 oz. or get to 180F i junk it. p. s. 16 oz. of water
i've tried a bunch of different windscreens. some burners don't like windscreens at all. too much turbulence under the pot.

iv'e got a hundred burners that are junk cause they won't boil 16oz of water on 1/2oz of fuel. :lol:

i still think it's the fuel itself that's holding me back.
Oops (or somebody! PLEASE!! :cry: ) get some Methyl Hydrate and compare it to Denatured Alcohol in a burner that you KNOW will boil 2cups on 1/2oz. then, if it works, send me the burner so i can die happy. :D
Daren, the Fancee Feest boils 2 on 1/2 ounce of denatured. You have a Fancee Feest right?
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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DarenN
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by DarenN » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:26 pm

zelph wrote:Daren, the Fancee Feest boils 2 on 1/2 ounce of denatured. You have a Fancee Feest right?
6. i have 6 fancee feest stoves. all basiclly the same pattern, just tweeked a bit here and there. none of them will come close to a 1/2oz boil. nor will the supercat, or starlyte.

Zelph, you answered the question so you win the prize. a box of burners will soon be headed your way.

Tony, i'd hoped you might answer to this post. i figured there just had to be a scientist in the groop :D ! please post the results of your tests.

Allen, you are contradicted by the findings of Zelph, Tony, and myself. the charts show the btu potential of ethyl being ~30% higher than methyl.

thanks guys!! :D :D
i feel much better now! 8-)
for a while there i was thinking i didn't have a clue about stove building. that's why i got so obsessed with the 1/2oz//2cup boil. now that i know i have burners that can do it, i know it's the fuel that's holding me back.

DarenN.........
"I'd rather be happy than right." Slartibartfast

Allen
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by Allen » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:09 pm

DarenN,

You asked about Denatured Alcohol, which is a constantly changing blend of alcohols.
Denatured Alcohol doesn't out preform Methanol, in My experience.
If You are refering To potential BTU charts, Every chart I've seen places ISO at the top of the chart
at 1400, but It's a crappy burning fuel on it's own.
You asked if anyone could do a comparison burn, I'm just reporting what I've found to be true.

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DarenN
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by DarenN » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:20 am

Allen;
the chart in this thread viewtopic.php?f=19&t=585&st=0&sk=t&sd=a doesn't show ISO alcohol but we weren't talking about it anyway. we are comparing methyl and ethyl. methyl has a potential btu of 10,000+, while ethyl is rated at 13,000+btu.
for a stove to boil 2cups of water on a half ounce of ethyl we need the burner to operate at 25-30% efficiency. for a stove burning methyl we need to get the efficiency up to about 50%. this is just simple mathematics (it has to be simple, or i couldn't do it ;) ).
the real test will be when Zelph recieves the burners i send him and tests then with denatured alcohol. i've come very close to the 2c boil on a couple of burners, with both methyl hydrate and race car methanol, and i suspect that they will easily do it on ethyl alcohol.
if you have a burner that will boil 2c on 1/2oz of methyl, i'd really like to see how you did it. hell, i'd buy a bunch of them! :D
DarenN........
"I'd rather be happy than right." Slartibartfast

Allen
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by Allen » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:07 am

DarenN wrote:Allen;
the chart in this thread viewtopic.php?f=19&t=585&st=0&sk=t&sd=a doesn't show ISO alcohol but we weren't talking about it anyway. we are comparing methyl and ethyl. methyl has a potential btu of 10,000+, while ethyl is rated at 13,000+btu.
for a stove to boil 2cups of water on a half ounce of ethyl we need the burner to operate at 25-30% efficiency. for a stove burning methyl we need to get the efficiency up to about 50%. this is just simple mathematics (it has to be simple, or i couldn't do it ;) ).
the real test will be when Zelph recieves the burners i send him and tests then with denatured alcohol. i've come very close to the 2c boil on a couple of burners, with both methyl hydrate and race car methanol, and i suspect that they will easily do it on ethyl alcohol.
if you have a burner that will boil 2c on 1/2oz of methyl, i'd really like to see how you did it. hell, i'd buy a bunch of them! :D
DarenN........
OK DarenN,
I thought You were asking oops about Denatured Alcohol :oops:
All I can get around here is S-L-X Denatured alcoohol, which according to a webpage I read once,
is about a 50 50 blend, with about a 10% variation. :)

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zelph
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by zelph » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:32 pm

Daren, drive south, go over the border into the U.S. and go to the nearest Ace hardware store and buy a gallon of denatured. :D

Or get one of the local truckers to pick up a gallon for you on their next run down into the states.
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Allen
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by Allen » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:09 pm

If anybody in the USA finds a denatured alcohol that out preforms Yellow Heet Methanol, PLEASE tell
me the brand name instead of just using the generic name Denatured alcohol. I am sceptical
My local ACE sells S-L-X and i know it doesn't out preform Yellow Heet.

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Skidsteer
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by Skidsteer » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:59 pm

Allen wrote:If anybody in the USA finds a denatured alcohol that out preforms Yellow Heet Methanol, PLEASE tell
me the brand name instead of just using the generic name Denatured alcohol. I am sceptical
My local ACE sells S-L-X and i know it doesn't out preform Yellow Heet.
Well, I'm confused.

I've done thousands(at least?)of stove tests and I estimate that more than 95% of the time, denatured outperforms Heet. Boil times are usually close to the same but the Denat burns much longer.

S-L-X is what I mostly use.
Skids

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
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Tony
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by Tony » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:14 pm

Hi Allen,
if anybody in the USA finds a denatured alcohol that out preforms Yellow Heet Methanol, PLEASE tell
me the brand name instead of just using the generic name Denatured alcohol. I am sceptical
My local ACE sells S-L-X and i know it doesn't out preform Yellow Heet.
I am spoilt here in OZ our STD denatured 95% ethyl alcohol out performs Methyl alcohol by a lot, about 3-4 mls per 0.5l.

I have done a quick search of the net for US denatured alcohol MSDS's and here are some URL's for denatured alcohol suppliers that look like they would easily out perform HEET, I do not know how easy it is to get these denatured alcohols but they are worth a look at. I am surprised that SLX 50/50 does not out perform HEET it must have to many other additives that slows the performance. Heet is nearly pure Methanol 99%, I am testing 99.8% methanol.

Tony

http://www.syndel.com/msds/denatured_ethanol_msds.html
http://www.hillbrothers.com/msds/pdf/de ... lcohol.pdf
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9922820
http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/MSDS/ ... _3_200.pdf
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/P6735.htm

Allen
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Re: 1/2oz//2cup boil?

Post by Allen » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:46 pm

Skidsteer wrote:
Allen wrote:If anybody in the USA finds a denatured alcohol that out preforms Yellow Heet Methanol, PLEASE tell
me the brand name instead of just using the generic name Denatured alcohol. I am sceptical
My local ACE sells S-L-X and i know it doesn't out preform Yellow Heet.
Well, I'm confused.

I've done thousands(at least?)of stove tests and I estimate that more than 95% of the time, denatured outperforms Heet. Boil times are usually close to the same but the Denat burns much longer.

S-L-X is what I mostly use.
Thanks Skidsteer.

That actually helped me. All my tests are boil time tests. I do more total burn time tests.

S-L-X is the only brand I can buy here. I get it at Wallys because it's cheaper there.
Maybe it's a cheaper blend?

I had a webpage bookmarked from the S-L-X site that no longer opens. It listed
their batch consistancy standards. it was either an 8% or 18% tolarance, I can't remember.


Cheers!
Last edited by Allen on Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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